Alan: Hello, Pontus. It’s nice to see you. What shall we talk about today?
Pontus: Something different, I think. I’m so bored of talking about Angelina Jordan. No, I’m just kidding.
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Alan: World-class tennis players usually start playing tennis when they’re four years old, that’s usually the age when they start. And the same thing with chess players. When you’re a world-class, you have to start an incredibly young age.
Alan: And she did that. That’s just naturally how it fell into place for her.
Pontus: Yeah. When did you start with, the chess playing?
Alan: I’m laughing, Pontus because I thought you were going to say – When did you start with the YouTubeing?
Pontus: Haha, yeah.
Alan: Something else I was thinking, about. Because I’ve been to Switzerland a few times and Switzerland is known, very, very famously for its watch making industry. And you get off at the airport and you walk through and you see these huge adverts about Swiss watches. And I was thinking about the nature of precision watches. Because if you open up a watch everything is so precise and working in such coordination. And it’s so small and fine and delicate, and it’s working as one unit, but the precision is so technical and complex and rich.
And I was thinking of, emotional precision. How, you know, if you look from the outside of a watch, you don’t really understand or know what’s happening inside of it, of all the precision that is necessary to have it working.
And it’s the same when looking at a human being. You don’t know the emotional precision necessary, that inhabits them and that absorbs their day and makes them who they are what they are. Now for a watch, you know it’s a fine precision watch If it only loses one second. From the result, you know, how precise it is. And it’s the same.
If a person has extreme, exact emotional precision, then you know from something that they are able to do or able to achieve. It gives you some insights into that.
So for example, if someone like Angelina Jordan comes and gives a performance and she makes us all into bowls of jelly. She completely decomposes us, then we say – Right, there must be some type of emotional precision in her that she has achieved. That we cannot actually describe, but it’s, something which is extraordinary for her to capture that level of emotion. She has a certain type of emotional precision inside of her. I have to compare it to a fine, fine Swiss watch, and some of these Swiss watches sell for $10,000 each.
Pontus: The thing is, she’s also quite an ordinary girl, an ordinary teenager, when she doesn’t sing. I mean, you can see it quite clearly when she stops singing she goes – haha, bye, like that.
That level of emotional precision that you’re mentioning, that must be coming from that world that she goes into when she sings.
Alan: I used to know a family and the children were growing up and they spoke four different languages. And when they were three years old and four years old, they mixed up the different words in the different languages. But suddenly when they were four and a half or five years old, they were able to separate all the different languages properly and accurately and to slide in and out of the different languages. And Angelina Jordan being who she is and how she is, she can slide in and out being a world-class performer and then slide back into being a little girl effortlessly.
Her upbringing has allowed her a certain type of confirmation of what she is as a human being. While at the same time she’s a world-class singer.
Pontus: There is a very much of, what you can call a duality in her. She talks about the seventh heaven. And also that it feels heavy on her shoulder. The world can be a great place, but there’s also the other side of it. And I think that is pretty brilliant for such a young person to have that sense of duality of life.
Alan: Everything has fallen into place exactly as it should be. Just like with the precision watch.
Pontus: Yeah. One circumstance in her career that I’m beginning to reevaluate is the timing of the pandemic. I think actually that was a good thing for her, that the pandemic is now because she has done so much for so many people during these lonely times, really. She has been able to heal people through her music and through her singing and theough who she is. So I think that is one of the pieces of the puzzle that’s falling into the right place at the right time, actually.
Alan: Yeah. There are many people who listened to her every day and there are many people who listened to her as medicine. I can not think of many medicines which are better for you than listening to Angelina Jordan
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Pontus: When I don’t hear her voice and I’m just thinking about it, the magic of it goes away, and I think of it as just – Oh, she just a good singer. But once I hear her… I shouldn’t be surprised, but I do get surprised each time because there is something there that is inexplicable. Inexplainable. Unexplainable.
Alan: Yeah, all of those. All of those.
Pontus: Haha, all of those. I’ve been starting to think about her, performing songs from other artists when I listened to other artists. One of my favorite French artists is called Mylène Farmer. I really like her voice and everything, and she’s super awesome, but I’m still thinking, what would it sound like if Angelina did this song?
Alan: Well, the way she reinterprets… Because when Angelina Jordan is sings a song, even if it’s a great song and very famous, and it’s been covered a hundred times, she reinterprets it in a way as if we hadn’t heard it before. And that it just part of her talent. And, you know, it’s like the precision watch.
You don’t know what’s going on inside of her, for her to be able to have that talent, but it’s just an incredible time.
Pontus: Yeah, it is. And on top of that she reinvents the song and does her own interpretation of it… On top of that is the quality of her voice, the sound that she can produce that is unprecidented. I’ve never heard any singer being able to do those, produce those sounds that she can do.
Alan: For me, it’s even more than that because the voice that she chooses is so appropriate for each of the songs. For example, when she does John Legend’s All of Me, she does something with her voice where she makes her voice rich. The choices that she makes with her re-interpretations, where each of her interpretation is almost like a hand fitting a glove.
Pontus: Yeah, that’s a good way to say it.
Alan: And, you know, that’s not something that can be learned. The way she decided to arrange Bohemian Rhapsody, it was beyond inspired to arrange it like that.
Pontus: I wonder how much time and effort she really puts into one of her arrangements. I know that in your interview with her guitarists Egil and even her guitarist in LA, Ivan, they both said that the recordings was sort of, almost first take and they didn’t rehearse before they just started playing.
I wonder if she writes something down? In some of the videos, she’s looking to the side to presumably a screen with the lyrics on it. Maybe there’s some notes how she’s going to do it, or is she so talented and so good that she can just sort of, go by a feeling of the song and just do it?
Alan: I think it’s that. And I’ll tell you why. Mozart was able to do that. Mozart, when he was a child prodigy, he would sit down, he would hear the symphony in his head, and then he would just, like taking dictation. He would just write down the notes as he heard it. And so that level of musicality is possible.
Now, I’m not saying that Angelina Jordan is another Mozart, but when someone is fluent in that type of language, and music is a language in its own right, which is not related to almost anything else that we can describe. It is an art, but you cannot really compare it to poetry or a painting, et cetera, et cetera.
And so when someone is that conversant with music and is so fluid within the music, then I think what Angelina Jordan does is, um, you know… It’s like she can speak spontaneously in rhyme the way a rapper does. You know, it’s a certain type of connections in the brain that ordinary people are just not familiar with.
When she’s doing a production, when she’s working with her Stargate team or when she’s writing the lyrics, then she can sit down and put much more effort into it. But I think a lot of her covers and a lot of her YouTube performances, have originally been absolutely spontaneous.
What we see now, especially with Republic Records is a more polished product and it’s a finished product, but we can still see the absolute brilliance of the arrangement and her voice and the impact.
Pontus: Yeah, it’s certainly a wonderful time to be a witness of this career, which is only going to go straight up, I think. When you were talking about Mozart, and that he just we’re writing things down, I think that is actually something I’ve heard in another area. Where an author, a woman who, quite young, started writing books. I can’t recall her name now. Many, many years ago I saw a documentary about her. She was out in the field, some some a hundred or 200 meters from the house and playing around. And then all of a sudden she got this feeling and she knew what it was. It was words coming in – I have to rush in to get paper and pen to capture this moment.
And that is quite an interesting, sort of, look into a prodigy’s way of thinking, or how a prodigy’s mind is working. Because they feel like it’s something exterior coming in, but it’s really happening inside of course. In a special way that we ordinary people don’t have, or maybe we have it, but we can’t sort of access it.
Alan: 50 years ago during the psychedelic era, Paul McCartney said, I think he just had been with the Maharishi in India, he said we only use 10% about brain, 90% of it is untapped and completely unused. And, you know, the word potential has a capital P to it. You know, what is the limits of our potential?
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Pontus: It’s funny because if you think about your brain and what it can do… I know Angelina says sometimes you’re looking for a miracle and there is nothing there. But you really can do a miracle. I’m thinking about dreams. When you have dreams your brain just lets go of all the boundaries we set up for ourselves, and we’re totally free in our mind when we sleep. And we can, at least I can, dream beautiful things that I couldn’t even imagine when I’m awake, but in my dream it just comes to me. There can be beautiful landscapes or even ideas that, of course they’re in my dreams, so they don’t hold up when I wake up. But in my dreams, they are absolutely brilliant, of course. So there is really that potential. And there’s also a sort of a special dream. That is when we know in the dream that we’re dreaming. Have you ever had that?
Pontus: And that is pretty awesome. I read a book about that and you can actually train yourself to have those dreams.
Alan: They say that, the dreams come from the unconscious, but where is the unconscious? It may be in the brain, it may not. Another way of looking at dreams, you know, when you have kids, you know, when they’re five and seven years old and you put them to bed and you tell them a bedtime story. And when you have a dream, you’re telling yourself a bedtime story.
Pontus: Yeah, that’s true. This special type of dreams they’re called lucid dreaming, you are aware that you’re dreaming in the dream. And watches, they don’t work in dreams. You can actually look at your watch in the dream, and then you see it’s 10 minutes past two, and then you look away and you check it again. And then that the watch is, another time in the dream. Because we cannot check time like that in dreams. So that’s a good way to check if you’re dreaming or not.
Alan: Sometimes if I have a dream, and it gets a little hairy. I’m being chased by criminals with guns. Then in the dream, I will say to myself – Okay, time to wake yourself up. You know, so it’s sort of like a fail safe, within my dream.
Pontus: Yeah. Do you know my fear of spiders?
Alan: Well, I know Angelina Jordan has had a very good effect for all the Swedish spiders because they are protected now, because of Angelina Jordan.
Pontus: Haha. I actually used, also in one of these dreams where I was being chased down a hallway by a huge spider, and all of a sudden it dawned on me – Oh, wait a minute. This is a dream. I must face my fears!
And I just stopped. I turned around and I looked at this spider and it was a really ugly looking spider. But I looked at it, and it faded away. That was quite remarkable. It just faded away. I said – Wow, this is great.
So I think you could use those dreams actually in a sort of a therapeutic sense. And also if you’re grieving, you can dream of the ones you’ve lost and you can say your goodbyes, if you haven’t had a chance to it. It’s the best virtual reality machine we have. That’s our own mind and a dream, really.
Alan: Sometimes my wife will wake up in the morning and she will tell me her dream. And because, I know her very well and I know her whole life very well. I can interpret her dreams for her in a way that she can not, because I can hear in the dream what symbol represents what, in her real life. And that, gets very interesting.
Pontus: If we go back to the subject of the day, which is Angelina. How would we connect these power of dreams to Angelina? I think the connection is that she has the ability to use her brain in a way that we all can really. But she can do it when she’s awake and she can go into this place, this world. I don’t know if you have seen it, but there is a clip where she sort of describes… Or maybe it was an interview where she describes…
Alan: She’s 12 years old and they start speaking Norwegian, and then they change it and they speak English. I liked that clip and she, you know, she says just – Oh, it’s just amazing.
And she can’t quite put it into words.
Pontus: I feel that she’s avoiding the question, because she knows she can never explain it to somebody who hasn’t seen it or been there. So she just says – Oh, it’s amazing.
Alan: Well, I mean, it’s not just the fact that she’s 12 years old and maybe her English vocabulary is limited, but some feelings are not that easy to put into words. And this is one of the paradoxes of commenting on Angelina’s music. The feeling that you may have in, I may have, how do you put that feeling into words?
One more connection between Angelina Jordan and dreams: She is living her dream.
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Pontus: She has this Patrion account, and you know, what patron is? It’s a sort of subscription service where you can have sponsors and exclusive content. And she has a statement there that she wants to, with her music, that she wants to heal, with her music too. And that I think is really an amazing, sort of vision that she has this dream of healing the world, actually. It’s a wonderful thing to be part of, this moment in time when somebody like her comes along and have this vision for us all.
Alan: This is exactly why you and I started this podcast, because her vision of healing the world. This is something that we could and should elaborate and focus on and publicize. And the point is not if she is healing the world or if she’s not healing the world, but for each of us in her own way, who she is able to reach, we are, if maybe we can use the word healed, maybe we can use the word happier. There is some movement in us where something changes in us. And, again, this is something which is very, very difficult to put into words.
Pontus: I’ve been thinking about, the small miracles that is life, really. And I think that is also because I’m thinking about how, like Angelina is almost like a miracle come true or a dream come true or a miracle in, in that sense of her abilities to invoke emotions and do things with a voice. That feeling sort of, I can translate that feeling over to other areas in my life.
So today, for example, we were eating outside in our garden and there was a wasp coming there. And I have this zapper thing that took on it. And then I felt sorry that I killed that wasp because I looked at it and I said to my children, they’re five and seven, I said – Look at it. It’s so tiny and it can fly and it can, locate food and look how, fine its body is. Like it’s yellow and black and really shiny.
And sort of getting involved in, the small miracles of everyday life. That is something I never pondered about before listening to Angelina. Not in this sort of focused way, in a sense.
Alan: So first she has changed your relationship with spiders. Now she has changed your relationship with wasps. Soon you will be embracing crocodiles!
Pontus: I don’t know where this will end.
Alan: No exactly the sky’s the limit.
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Pontus: The most profound thing she’s changed, with me anyway, is my feelings towards my fellow man. I’m much more open and willing to look the other way, if somebody is being foolish or being mean and see all the good things about a person. And that’s definitely Angelina’s doing there.
Alan: That is absolutely massive. That is one of the best changes you can have access to. And, if Angelina Jordan heard you say that, I think she would have a big smile on her face and be very pleased.
Pontus: That is one step, on the way to making this world a better place. If I and you and somebody else listening to Angelina can take that into their heart to be a gentler person towards everybody. Then we’re on our way to get rid of this nonsense that are going on in the world with different religions and different countries and different races and everything. We’re all human. We’re all on this planet together. And we only have this planet. There’s nothing else. So we must make the best of it, I think.
Alan: What you’re describing is a very, very high and noble area. And there’s very, very few things that people have access to that actually makes them a better person. Very few things. And no government can do that and sometimes a religion can, but there’s nothing consistent. And when someone has access to something that makes them a better person, it’s very, very rare.
If you could make that into a pill and give that as a pill, you would have a best seller.
Pontus: Yeah, but that’s starting to look a little bit suspicious, I
Alan: Yeah I know, I know.
Pontus: I mean, the basic ingredients of this is love, isn’t it? If we can show love towards everybody, the concept of universal love, that is the way forward. So there are many different ways we can make this world a better place, or we can improve ourselves, to make this world a better place. It all boils down to this, sense of, the universal love that I think Angelina is.. Is in the basic message that she wants to communicate.
Alan: If you go to the heart of the city and you stand on the corner and you stop people and you say to them, what are your views on universal love? Not many people will understand what you are even talking about. You’re describing something completely out of their vocabulary. And that is very unfortunate.
It’s a point of great sadness. Universal love should much be apart of, if not the everyday language, at least something that we can understand on a certain level.
We don’t have to understand it rationally before we can understand it in our hearts. But, if we hear the two words together universal and love, then maybe we can try and begin to understand what can that possibly mean.
There’s no easy route for this. As I understand the English language, is where the word grace comes in. Some people have been touched by grace. And one of the definitions of grace is to understand the nature of universal love from the inside.
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Well Pontus, what shall we talk about for next time?
Pontus: I think we’re done now. I think we can cancel the show.
Alan: Absolutely! We can wait for our Grammy Award.
Pontus: Yeah, that would be nice.
Alan: You know, I’ve done 40 videos on Angelina Jordan. And after the first three, if someone told me I would have done 40, I would have said no way at all. No way at all. But, you know, there are so many different angles and so many different ways of describing something.
Alan: Well Pontus, it’s wonderful talking to you. We should talk more often.
Pontus: Yup. Yes, let’s talk again tomorrow. Same time.
Alan: Don’t tempt me.
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