Alan: Hello, Pontus.
Pontus: Hi Alan. Nice to see you.
Alan: Um, nice that you pop up.
Pontus: Yeah. Do you have something special for us to talk about?
Alan: Well, I’m thinking about, um, the world of feeling, because that is, um, very much in the nature of what Angelina Jordan does. And, you know, it’s almost like talking about the sunsets, you know, we can have, um, a hundred episodes of the sunset or human emotions, we can have 3000 episodes. Although if we’re doing one a week, if we have 3000 episodes that will take us to very old age, Pontus
Pontus: That’s true. So let’s limit it a little bit.
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Alan: The history of human emotion and the evolution of human emotion has always really fascinated me because I recognize that human emotion has evolved from the fight or flight instincts that was absolutely essential to survival of a more primitive man, a hundred thousand years ago.
Alan: And the human emotion that we have is much more elaborate and much more articulate, et cetera, et cetera. But the nature of that instinct, which people have with fight or flight, that is something which overlaps with human emotion. And that is something which is very rich. And that is something that we need to tune back into.
And this is an area which is, I reckon on a certain level, being tapped by Angelina Jordan, because she puts us in touch with a very deep level of emotion, which we normally don’t have access to and which is a mystery to us. And it takes us to all types of unusual places.
Let me tell you two stories.
I heard this wonderful, wonderful image once where when you buy a new car in the glove compartment, you have a manual uh, of how to take care of the car. It says, um, after 10,000 kilometers, you service the car and you check the oil and you should not do more than 80 kilometers an hour, et cetera, et cetera, so that you take care of the car, to the maximum benefits to, um, prolong the life of the car.
How come there’s no manual with your life? How come there is no guidance of the rules of how you should live and how you should not live? Does that mean that a new car is more valuable than your life? But in fact, there is a manual that we have, and that is how you feel. And so the level of feeling you have is actually a type of guideline. It gives you guidance to how you should carry on and how you should live your moments, et cetera, et cetera. it’s subtle, but it’s real. And it’s actually very, very fundamental.
Pontus: Yeah, I see what you mean.
Alan: The other story I have, Um, this is not about the human situation, but this is a level of instinct, which is something which we have completely, completely lost. Uh, the image, it goes back to, uh, an ancient mystic and he’s living in the wild and what he has done, he takes a worm and he cuts the worm in half.
And then he follows the worm to see which plants the worm eats in order to grow itself back again as a whole. Now, if a worm can do that with virtually no brain, um, only knowing instinctively what to do, then how come we as humans who have a brain and at least some instinct, how come we could not do anything like that on, um, on that type of level?
And that is something which we really, really need to aspire to and really, really think about it. So when we have all our, uh, I’ll say all our marbles in one basket, meaning all our consciousness and our brain, then sometimes we, um, for, forsake, we, uh, ignore too much the other things which are going on between our ribs, not just the heart, but the emotion and the instinct.
And this is all a world which is out of fashion. This is a whole world out of fashion. And that, and this to me is something very, very special that Angelina Jordan does because she brings us a little bit more back in the direction of this type of world.
Pontus: It’s interesting to, to think about if, uh, she is using her instincts more than the average person when she’s sort of portraying those feelings, because that’s what you sort of, uh, almost, uh, that’s what, uh, gets across that it’s. I mean, everybody says when they look at her in reaction videos or those types of situations that she’s so relaxed and it’s effortless, it’s almost like she’s letting something take over her.
Pontus: And maybe that is the instinct of how should this song sound like? And she had just goes with the flow.
Alan: Yeah. I think music and instinct go very well together because both of them bypass the rational. And if we’re talking about music and instincts, we have to introduce the J word and talk about jazz. Because jazz by its very nature, being improvisational, a jazz musician, you know, does not sit down beforehand and say, oh, what shall I play tonight?
But every moment he is in touch with a complexity of instinct, which he has plugged into his musical ability.
Pontus: Yeah. I mean, those, famous melismas and runs that she does, maybe those are not rehearsed at all. They just pop up in the moment of things. I don’t know, but it would be interesting to, to hear her talk about that. How much is instinct and how much is sort of rehearsed?
Alan: Well it’s, um, either way we know for a fact it’s the wonderful world that she inhabits when she sings. So, um, but on another level, it all, it almost hardly matters because the nature of the creative process, I mean, I think, when she’s planning a song of performance like Bohemian Rhapsody, and she’s preparing it beforehand, it’s not like you or I sitting down doing a mathematical equation.
Alan: It’s, it’s not that type of experience, you know, it’s her, um, becoming one with the lyrics and her understanding, um, what that moment in the song needs to really lift it off the ground.
Pontus: Yeah. And, uh, I mean, so many, creative minds have spoken about this, uh, the intuition or the song or composition, just coming to them as if it’s coming from the outside and not the inside of their brain. It’s like, uh, Mozart, uh, I don’t know if it’s true, but it’s famously said that he, just wrote down the music that was in his head, already there. So.
Alan: I mean, he he would just sit in the chair and he would hear it. It was, it would be like for him, it would be like taking dictation.
The width and the breadth of the human spectrum is absolutely mind boggling.
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Alan: There’s such an interesting difference between having a new way of mathematics and a new way of thinking, or a new way of feeling. A new way of feeling is totally unexplored. Everyone is concentrating on, um, progress and research, but the nature of a new way of feeling, whether it’s called introspection or whether it’s called psychology or whether it’s called self-improvement, it is totally, totally untapped. Now, I can feel a certain way and I have a language and I can try and put into words how I am feeling, and you can feel a certain way and try and put into words how you’re feeling. Um, my feelings maybe are unique to me, but I don’t think they would be, um, unique to all of mankind, but this is where Angelina Jordan comes in because very subtly Um, with many, many people, she is expanding their level of feeling. She’s taking them to new places. For example, you could not have 20 people listening to Angelina Jordan, 20 superfans of Angelina Jordan and hook up their brains while they’re listening to her and, um, see what colors, uh, and what chemicals are going through their brain at that time. Because, although science would like to analyze it and say, oh, well, it’s this chemical, um, this type of dopamine, for example, which is increasing in the brain, um, it is the feeling which is crucial. And sometimes the feeling, um, it’s not the chemical in the brain, which is causing the feeling. It is the feeling which is stimulating something else.
It’s the matter of which is the horse and which is the cart.
Pontus: Yeah. Which comes first, the egg or the hen?
Alan: Well, that’s actually profoundly different because the horse and cart has a clear order of sequence, but the chicken and egg do not. So it’s actually that they’re contrapuntal with each other.
Pontus: I see what you mean. Yeah. There’s a difference there. Yeah.
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Pontus: And of course the, the thing that we are experiencing in everyday life is sort of a, um, an interface of what we are really all about, because I mean, it’s all about energy in the end. So this is what we’re experiencing is just sort of a, a facade of, uh, something that we can never really experience, uh, 100%. It’s just like an interface, like a computer interface almost.
Alan: would you allow me to quote a line from a Beatles song? Um, and, uh, in 1967, Seargent Peppers Ringo Star sang, ‘What do you see when you turn out the lights? I can’t tell you but I know it’s mine.’ So it is, um, self-development, it is subjectivity is what we have inside of us.
Alan: Um, the brain is absolutely been in fashion for the last a hundred or 200 years. You know, science has really, really, um, it’s done a coup on our consciousness and our civilization. It it’s taken out, you know, science is king. Uh, but the whole field of human emotion, um, if you and I had a time machine, what I would suggest that we do Pontus is we go back 500 years and we interview someone from 1500 and we, um, say, uh, tell me, how have you experienced human emotion?
Alan: Now that would be a very interesting podcast.
Pontus: Yeah, let’s do that instead.
Alan: Well, but then we would miss out on Angelina Jordan and I don’t think you were prepared to do that.
Pontus: no, no, no. Not a single day goes by without listening to Angelina Jordan. That’s that’s for sure.
Alan: I mean, the other thing we can do with that time machine, we can go forward, uh, for 500 years and see how famous Angelina Jordan is in 500 years time.
Alan: And then we could come back and we too can do a podcast about that.
Pontus: Yeah. So what do you think we will find?.
Alan: Um, I think we will find that Sweden has invaded America and taken over the country.
Alan: And the continents have merged again.
Pontus: Yeah. Well, I don’t know. I don’t know about that, but, uh, uh, I mean then sometimes I I’m doubtful about the future for, uh, Angelina and her career. But then again, sometimes I’m just, no no, no, this, you don’t have to worry about nothing because this is an extraordinary thing that we are witnessing. This is like, uh, almost unprecedented level of, uh, uh, I mean, you’ve said it before like the stars, all the stars have aligned. There are so much that must sort of, uh, uh, fall into the right place for this to be an experience that is real. And it is real. I mean, it’s, uh, it’s happening right in front of our eyes, really.
Pontus: And that is one of the most fascinating things I’ve ever witnessed. Uh, Like, the slow progression of where is this going to end? When she comes out with one song after another, and, uh, I mean, it’s a, it’s all amazing. And also, uh, so fascinated to, to watch others, how they react and how they sort of, uh, uh, get aware of this is something really, really special.
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Alan: Sometimes they say that, ‘Out of the mouth of babes’ and they talk about the innocence and purity of children. And, you know, for example, um, they think nothing about having a Dalai Lama who’s seven or eight years old because the emotional integrity and purity is something which, um, some people, and in some instances they admire and they look up to, uh, but Angelina Jordan, um, she had that when she was young, but she still maintains that. and she has recycled that into her art in a way, which we really haven’t seen before. Because um, she’s like creating a new genre with how she’s singing. She’s using her voice as a medium, but it’s not really her voice. Because all the other singers are using their voice, but she’s doing something else with her voice, which is, um, something that we could only react to emotionally, you know, I’ve been trying for one year to put into words what she does and, um, I’m not exactly giving up, but I actually, um, you know, it’s like trying to describe the sunset oh, look at the orange and the red and the yellow and tomorrow it’s the yellow and the purple.
Pontus: Yeah. I see what you mean. you want to sort of, uh, come up with a, an explanation you don’t want to sort of, um, uh, just give up, but then sometimes you just have to go with the flow, of course. Uh, one thing that I I’ve found recently, which I thought was very interesting way of putting it is that, um, one person who, who was reacting to her said that she has such a great personality and she’s such a humble human being. And the thing is that that is captured inside her voice. And she transmits that through her singing through the way she is. And you can, you can sort of get an appreciation for her, uh, persona just by, uh, hearing her sing. And that I, think was sort of the, yes, that may be a part of, uh, the mystery of why she’s getting to us all so, so easily. I mean, she’s yeah, she has a way of, of getting through.
Alan: I think I have to use the ‘I’ word Pontus. Um, she is very well integrated in a way that most people aren’t, um, she’s integrated things, um, so that everything is in balance and she comes out as a unit. It’s the nature of that type of internal integration that, um, is so unique for her, with her persona and her voice and her talent and her understanding and her emotional world.
Alan: And they thought it’s sort of like the, the orchestra, um, the blend of all these factors creates one type of phenomena.
At the end of the day, it goes back to the car manual. You know, we can only go by how we feel, and that is, um, it’s very subjective, but it really should not be undervalued. You know, how we feel, um, physically, If you have a baby, if the baby needs to sleep, it goes to sleep. It’s that tuned into the body.
Alan: The worm knows which plant to eat to make itself whole, if a Fox is ill, it knows which plants to eat to make itself better. So, you know, we, we really, really need to, um, focus on this level of, um, I’ll call this physical instinct.
Pontus: Yeah, that’s a good word. Somewhere we have that, but we have sort of lost it in, in our complexity of a human society and all the pressures on us to behave in a certain way. Or, and that is something that Angelina is sort of like that, that’s one of the aspects that I really sort of, uh, admire about her that she’s so natural. ‘This is who I am. Just take it or leave it’. She, she doesn’t seem to be nervous about, uh, how she looks or nervous about, uh, what she’s going to say. And she can stand on a stage and, and, um, there’s no, it’s…
Alan: There’s no pretension.
Pontus: Yeah. That’s a, that’s another good word. And, um, and, and I would like that. I would like to be able to do that. That would be great. I mean, that is something to aspire to really. And I think I I’m I’m a little bit better just because I’ve listened to Angelina and sort of soaked up her, um, her way of, uh, taking on life really. So she’s an inspiration.
Alan: Maybe we should call this episode Never too old to have a role model.
Pontus: Oh yeah. That’s, that’s good. That’s a good, good one. Yeah, because she is a role model to me. She really is. I mean, uh, uh, in my everyday life, I try to think, uh, almost like what would Angelina do in this situation and, and also not letting fear control what I say or what I do and how I behave, because I think that is very like an, um, like a filter on what we’re doing is like, we’re always being a little bit nervous, ‘Oh, how is this going to sound, if I say it like this?’, and then that’s not really. Uh, up to us to, to sort of censor ourselves before we say something, of course we should sort of be respectful about everything, but if you have the right intention, then everything will be okay. I mean, then everything will be it’s like you said, some one time to me when I said, I hope you, you, uh, you weren’t offended by me saying so. And you said something like, uh, I I’m, I’m only offended when it’s. Uh, when it’s, what, what did you say?
Alan: I said, um, I do not take offense when none is meant.
Pontus: Great. That is a, that is excellent. I live life by that now.
Alan: Yeah, but no, but I mean, you know, you, are my friend Pontus, and I know you well enough to know that being offensive is not in your nature. That is not the fabric that you are cut out from. And so, you know, w we occasionally, may use the wrong word or something may not come, come out quite as we meant it. But, um, I do not have to, um, have defenses when I speak with you, which is why the podcast flows so well, because I know, um, you will not see, um, you will not be critical. You will not be, uh, oh no, Alan, you know, Uh, I don’t agree with that, but one more thing. I want to say Pontus, which really fits into what we’re talking about and that is the very simple fact alcohol does not touch my lips. I do not drink wine or beer or whiskey, and I never have, I’m not a recovered alcoholic. I’ve never had a habit of drinking. It’s just a habit I never really developed. And the best way I can explain this, um, in keeping with this podcast is there is so many different things in our life or that we can take, which affect the accuracy of how we feel. Physically and emotionally, I want to perceive as much as I can with the utmost accuracy. Exactly how I’m feeling. And I do not want anything to blur that for me.
Pontus: Yeah. that’s a excellent, I’m not. It reminds me of something. The comedian, uh, Jay Leno said, he said, uh, much the same thing as you. He, he doesn’t drink alcohol. He doesn’t drink coffee. He doesn’t even wear sunglasses. He feels it affects his perception of reality. He wants it as natural as it can be.
Pontus: And I think that’s an excellent, uh, excellent sort of a philosophy, if you will.
Alan: Well, maybe we can call this episode, ‘No sunglasses for me’.
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