Wrapped in a Warm Blanket Episode 15 Accountants don't cry, do they? With Koach Ren


Angelina Jordan Podcast

EPISODE 15 Accountants don’t cry, do they? with Koach Ren

We can act tough. We can keep our emotions buried deep inside of us. That is until we start listening to Angelina Jordan.

What is she doing to us through her artistry? It’s as if we’re becoming a different person almost, more emotional, more inspired. 

How can she inspire an accountant that is used to writing stuff like, ‘Q4 revenue is 20% more than last quarter’ to suddenly write poetic lines like, ‘It’s like her voice laid bare all the scars on my soul and caressed each one of them.’

How can she possibly do that?

Alan: Hello, Pontus.

Pontus: Hi, Alan.

Alan: What shall we do tonight?

Pontus: I think I should go back to bed because I’m a little hoarse.

Alan: Really well, don’t forget to take off your saddle.

Pontus: Okay. No, we’ll invite a guest tonight. Don’t you think?

Alan: Good idea. I think we’re off to Canada tonight.

Pontus: Oh, really?

Alan: Shall we call you Koach?

Koach: Call me Koach, that is fine. Yeah.

Alan: You, I believe, are a fan of Angelina Jordan.

Koach: Oh, yeah. Oh yeah. I have been a fan for almost two years now.

Alan: Pontus and I have only been a fan for about 12 months. You are probably much more knowledgeable about her than we are.

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Alan: When you first heard her sing was it with Bohemian Rhapsody on AGT?

Koach: I actually watched a video of her, ‘I’ll Be There’ about a few days before Bohemian Rhapsody came out. Yeah, so that was quite a shocker because I’ve never watched a child singer before. That was the first time. I was shocked to the core, like how could a little girl sing like that and touch you in a way that an adult singer can not possibly do?

Alan: Even the first time from ‘I’ll Be There’ you were immediately impacted by her?

Koach: Oh, yeah. Oh Yeah. Because, what I related to the song, to her version of it was basically the strong feeling you have with your children basically, unless you are a parent, it won’t be, it will be impossible for anyone to represent that kind of a feeling, intensity of it, accurately, but, for some reason, an eight year old girl touched to me, and with her version and really, made me almost cry. Like I had tears in my eyes. Yeah.
I’ll Be There, it’s a special song to me. I’ve known it for many years since my youth, since high school, basically.
Yeah. And I didn’t expect, a little girl could sing like that because the original was quite different from her version. She rearranged the song completely, lowered the key, slowed down the tempo, a lot of other things and transformed the song. The song is not about intense love. It’s more, the original was more like a, you know, like a dance song. but she made it into something totally different and extremely powerful.

Alan: What you were saying, Koach is really interesting because you’re saying something that I don’t think I’ve ever heard anyone else say, which is that this song has affected me as a parent, as opposed to a love song,
 That’s a very original point. I’ve never heard anyone else say that.
Koach: Yes, that’s right. It reminded me of the first time ever that I held my daughter when she was born. And, the nurse gave me a bundle. And there she is. And I just held her and I had this emotion stirring in my chest. That was exactly the kind of emotion that her song reminded me of.
That was like 18 years ago, Right. When, when that happened, like, you know, the little girl, reached deep down in my heart and pulled that memory out of me. It’s beyond comprehension. First time I realized, oh, this girl is something else, right? Yeah.
Another example would be Million Miles. That was actually the first, very first time that I made a conscientious effort to try to understand my emotions, my feelings, and write about it in a clear way. So Million Miles is a song that Angelina wrote about her grandpa, right? So it basically, the song reminded me of my father who has passed six years ago. I didn’t cry at my father’s funeral.  I didn’t shed one tear. Not because I wasn’t sad, but because I try to project this tough image in front of friends and relatives. I am the only son in the family. And I am supposed to be the pillar, right, of this family, right. I cannot show weakness.
So yeah. So I didn’t share a tear. But it didn’t mean I didn’t want to cry. And I think the moment was postponed six years. Until, her song triggered it and I was in tears, like 30 seconds into it and I just cannot control it.
I wrote about 20 posts about Angelina already. Before that, before Million Miles, I never talked about how I feel. I talked about my understanding, right, of her artistry, how she projects, but I never talk about my own feelings, but that was the first time I believe. I wrote that, ‘it’s like her voice laid bare all the scars on my soul and caressed each one of them.’
Honest to God, I don’t know how I picked up this line. When I wrote it down it even surprised me, cause I didn’t know, I had… I was able, right to capture the essence of that emotion. That was basically it.

Alan: That is beautiful where you say, her voice caressed the scars inside of me. That’s almost like poetry, what you just said.
Koach: Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. I want to talk about, because I think I told you I’m an accountant, right? I’m probably the last person you will think of who would be able to write something like that. If you read the stuff I write, ‘Q4 revenue is 20% more than last quarter’. Stuff like that, you know, is this how I write? And I am not… I’ve never been, you know, writing poetry, I’ve never tried. I didn’t know I was able to do so until… What I’m trying to say is she inspires me, right in a big way and in a fundamental way that I didn’t know, I had this in me to capture the feelings, the emotions.

Pontus: Yeah. this is like really mind-boggling. What is she doing to us?

Koach: Another thing that she did to me. And, it’s even more impactful, being a middle aged man, you know, I have built this strong defense around my heart. I will not show my emotions. I don’t cry, I try to be like an iceberg. It doesn’t mean that I don’t have feelings. I have. I pushed it down, right. So, I had this defense and her voice penetrated that defense, like a knife, hot knife through butter. So seconds later, my defense was gone. Like I’ve lost it. I have become far far, far more sentimental than I used to be. When I watch news, simple news it could make my eyes, you know wet, like it’s crazy. I just don’t succumb to sentiments, but now I’ve become a different person almost.

– – –

Pontus: We found a title for this episode. Do you want to hear it? Yeah, Alan, what was it again?

Alan: Accountants don’t cry.

Koach: Oh, that’s great, very fitting.

Alan: We’re halfway through this interview and I can already tell you, this is a great interview. You have understood exactly what our focus and what our brief is – to elaborate on the emotional content of what Angelina does to us, and you have understood that exactly. And that is exactly what you are addressing. This is, as far as I’m concerned, the mystery, the major mystery. So many people have this reaction. Now the big, big question, which I don’t really think can be answered is, how does she reach us and open us up and make us more emotional? That is the complete enigma.

Koach: That is, yeah, that is quite right. That’s I’m, I’m still trying to, um, uh, understand or try to, um maybe, find an answer.
With, I’ll Be There, she touched me in a way that only a parent can have the kind of emotion, right. It reminded me of the moment when I held my daughter for the first time.
Another example is the I’m Still Holding Out For You. I can’t stop talking about that song. I compare her version to Janis Joplin’s, Little Girl Blue.  She was able to present this despair in a similar way as Janis Joplin who is like established singer, you know, who is almost like a mental case, right in herself. But she was able to basically, in that song, I’m Still Holding Out For You, which is just again, mind boggling.
How can she understand despair?

Alan: I have a theory because a lot of people will say, how can a 10 year old girl or a 12 year old girl sing about these deep, complicated emotions who doesn’t have the life experience. But to that, I say she may not have the life experiences. She may not have lived through that emotion, but she has such an advanced understanding of music that more than compensates for her lack of life experience. And she’s able to fill that gap because of an extreme understanding of music and the power of music, as opposed to actually experiencing that.

Koach: Um, I have a slightly different view of this subject, I think. It comes down to her emotional EQ, basically. Her ability to empathize with others. Even though she doesn’t have the life experience, but when she read the lyrics, listen to the music, she intuitively knows where she needs to go to project that emotion. We see the same quality in many of the great actors and actresses basically. They, when they act, they can project a complete different, image of themselves. I think that’s the EQ basically, you know, as suppose IQ, right? Her EQ, it must be through the roof, if we can measure it. That’s my theory, it may not be true…

Alan: I think that’s a great theory. I really, really like that. And in fact, it’s such a good theory, I would like to add that to one of the major things that Angelina Jordan can teach us. She can teach us that tuning into someone else and how they feel is really so important. And it’s a priority for who we are and how we are. I really liked that, Koach. I really liked what you just said.

Pontus: Me too. I’m getting very afraid of something right now, and that is if she can have this effect on us now, when she’s 15 years old, what kind of effect can she have on us when she’s 30 or 40 years old, with that kind of experience of life that she’s going to get?

Koach: Yeah. Yeah. When she actually has it has the life experience. Yeah. Yeah. yeah. there will be something to watch.

Pontus: I almost think she can change the course of history

Koach: I have reservations, on that part just because, it really depends on what career path she picks for herself. I have very low opinion of the current music industry. The people who listen to pop songs regularly, they’re just too young. Too young to understand what is love, what is loss, what is life?  And when you get older, when you have two kids and a mortgage, you probably don’t have time for music anymore. And people who gradually lose touch with music and fade away and you have these youngsters occupying the forum and, making judgment, passing judgment on singers. That’s, I think that’s the biggest headwind facing her and, we’ll see, how she copes with that.

Pontus: Yeah. Yeah. we don’t know what will happen in the future…

Koach: Exactly. Yeah. But, for sure, she has tremendous staying power. Her artistry is so versatile so, multi-faceted, you know, it will stay there until people realize its value.

Alan: I want to connect to something that you said, you were talking about her empathy and her ability in that field.  I’m going to link that to the nature of her fan base. Now, when you’re 15 and 20 years old, you have more energy than sense.

Koach: exactly. Exactly.

Alan: You’re almost too young to imagine how another person is feeling. So when you’re 15 to 20, your whole sense of empathy is not very well developed, but then when you get to be 40 and 60 years old, you’ve lived your life. You have relationships. You have a partner, maybe children, then you get to tune in to how other people feel. And there is some question of why is Angelina Jordan attract older fans? Maybe it’s because she’s a connoisseur of empathy and maybe younger people haven’t had the chance to tune in really, to the nature of empathy.

Koach: I absolutely agree with you. And that’s my observation as well. She’s a very classical singer. And, she brings back the seventies and sixties. And, also because you just mentioned, it’s the emotional depth, it’s the profundity of the song, of the art rather than those pop songs where, you know, they rely on visual effects, It’s not about that. She has grasped the essence of art, right? What is art? Art is the ability to arouse emotion deep inside you, right? That’s the art, that’s what art’s supposed to do. And that’s why you’re absolutely right, older people will feel more attracted to her artistry. It’s just because of their life experience, because they have experienced loss, personal loss and they know what’s life, what’s love. And they will appreciate her songs much, in a much deeper way than, yeah younger generation.

Alan: To sort of elaborate on what is art, there is the emotion that she is feeling that she is able to convey. And then there is the emotional reaction in the listener. And then as an extra added bonus, which is very special with Angelina it is provoking an emotion in the listener that they haven’t experienced before.

Koach: That’s right. Yup. Yes, yes, yes. Yeah. Yeah, she gives me personally, and a lot of other people I know, an opportunity to take a second look at yourself.  What kind of human being are you? Many of us don’t really know that until the moment they listened to her songs.

Pontus: Our good friend, Chris Walker, over at the channel BigAngieFan, we were chatting on the internet and he sent me a text, which I felt was so good, so I said, ‘May I quote you on this one’? ‘Sure, sure you can’. And he said like this, ‘I’m starting to feel more and more that Angelina breaking through to the masses would be a much more significant thing than just, “Oh, here’s a new, great singer to enjoy”. She could be a real boost for love in the world’.

– – –

Alan: Koach, thank you ever so much. this to me is like a landmark episode. This is like a prototype because, when Pontus and I were first discussing the nature of our podcasts, we wanted people who had experienced Angelina Jordan, to talk about the complexity and subtlety of their emotional experience. And you have taken that, it’s like in rugby, you picked up the ball and you’ve run with it. and you have, you’ve spoken about being a parent and you’ve spoken about a bereavement and you’ve spoken about your different emotional nuance that you have experienced it, which is exactly what we wanted to do with our podcast
So thank you very, very much, Koach. We appreciate this.

Koach: My pleasure, indeed. My pleasure, indeed.

Pontus: This was amazing stuff.

Alan: yeah, I think it’s a great interview. I think this is great. It far exceeded my expectation.


  1. James Riley

    “Her voice laid bare all the scars on my soul.” What an expressive guest. I like the serious, no-nonsense tone of Koach Ren but also the poetic dazzle. I liked the focus on empathy in this episode and Pontus’ reference towards the end to AJ spreading Love. I believe that is the bottom line. Healing through a baptism of love – delivered by spontaneous tears perhaps – is a significant part of the role that she may play in a broader more global sense. Marvelous episode!

  2. Johannes Dippenaar

    Thank you. This was really a great interview. Alan, your last sentence said it all. Koach sound like a remarkable person. There is one remark that I want to make about Angelina’s “life experiance”: Looking at her videos over the years from when she was young, maybe she has experiance more of the sadness and hardship of life than people think. Thank you again for a very enlightening interview.

  3. Gert Westblad

    Enjoyed this a lot. I have had much of the same experiance with Angelina, but my children in their 30’s can only recognice her as a good singer, and thats it! 😏 But I will continue to pester them with her music.. 😁
    I am not very worried about her future carreer. The great singers don’t need the teenagers, they will always find an audience and fill up consert halls..

  4. Rosie

    Thank you Allen, Pontus and Koach , I enjoyed this podcast.

  5. Ronald G Branscombe

    I agree this is probably the most interesting guest interview so far because Koach himself had some well thought out things to say about Angelina’s personal impact on him. It meant that Alan could take a back seat, instead of leading the conversation, which allowed us all to focus on the guest. Koach’s willingness to share his emotional journey was key. He identified Angelina’s instinctive empathy as an important part of her ability to disarm us,expose and start to heal emotional scars. BigAngieFan’s observation that her skill at getting behind our mask can trigger an ‘opportunity to take a second look at yourself’ was well worth mentioning, so thanks, Pontus.

    My interest now is in trying to guess where her current transition from child star to adult performer will take us. She has already alarmed some of her most ardent fans with her latest Tik Tok covers and image makeover. Worth discussing?

  6. Anette Sundin

    Thank you once again for a very good episode and interview. Like Koach said, Angelinas emotional Eq is so high. Therefore she can sing these emotional songs with such almost painful touch.

  7. george davidson

    I have never been a big fan of singers,70 years.If it came on the radio ,I enjoyed it and went about my business.All through my 20s and 30s my friends were crazy about bands and artists and bought album after album,but I thought they were crazy.I went to a couple of concerts with them and couldn’t understand what was the big deal.I have heard a lot of great singers and songs but this Angelina Jordan is another animal altogether.She brings tears to me in almost every song and I finally understand what it is to be a fan. She is one of a kind and only going to get better! I watch her every day and she has made my life better!


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